#44 Ist Elefanten abschießen Naturschutz? Das Krugerpark-Dilemma

Interview Podcast KETTENREAKTION-20260218_171658-Besprechungsaufzeichnung

18. Februar 2026, 04:17PM

22 Min. 55 Sek.

Ben Davis 0:03I mean, Bournemouth isn't that old. It's only been around 150 years.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 0:07Yeah.

Ben Davis 0:08But it's where Mary Shelley lived. So a lot of the, like, Frankenstein money flew into Bournemouth. So, yeah.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 0:11Yeah, yeah.Yes, a very good.famous Bournemouth. So let's talk about water a little bit. As I told you, you know, our podcast reaches general public, so we don't have to go to be too specific. And it would be great if you mentioned Erica once. That would make Erica very, very happy and they

Ben Davis 0:31Yeah, that's easy to do. I work closely with them, so yeah.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 0:37They are sponsoring our podcast from time to time, so we would be happy about that as well. So Ben, let's talk about water. If an alien would approach our planet, they might think, oh, there's enough water for everybody for all the time, because most of the planet is covered by water. So what's the problem?

Ben Davis 0:57Yeah, I mean, we even call it the blue planet because of how much water it's got. But most of that water, like 97% of it is salt water. So it's mostly unavailable to you to us in the form that we need it. So just 3% of water on the planet isfresh water, so the type that we can drink. But the majority of that is locked in glaciers, the ice caps, or deep in the ground. So actually, less than 1% of water on the planet is the kind that we can use for drinking, for food production, in industries, that kind of thing.So yeah, it's a very small percentage of the overall water that's available.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 1:39And of course, we all have heard that the consumption of fresh water has reached a critical level. What are the main problems? Who is the main consumer of fresh water?

Ben Davis 1:50Yeah, I mean, so...Obviously, we're experiencing a global water crisis, and it's completely true, like the world is running out of water. Yeah.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 2:00One second, one second. My wife didn't switch off her.Her iPad.So, here we go, okay.

Ben Davis 2:11Yeah.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 2:12So, who's the main consumer of water? Why are we short?

Ben Davis 2:16Yeah, so it's.The main consumer of water is agriculture. So it's in food production. And it's also, so just taking a step back a little bit. So obviously, we're experiencing a global water crisis, but we call it a global crisis. But really, in order to think about water properly,we need to think about it on a very local scale. So unlike with carbon emissions and climate change or other sustainability topics, water is very local. So we need to think of it in terms of catchment areas and local regions, just because, you know, each area has a very differentclimate, geographies, different culture, socioeconomics, and each of those play a role in terms of the availability of water, but also the quality of water, how it's been managed, and all of those different things. So yeah, before we start talking about who's consuming water mostly, we have tokind of realise water needs us to think locally. We can consider a global challenge, but really the solutions, the impacts, it's all happening in a very defined location.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 3:35You said food production is a major issue if we talk about fresh water consumption, so...Can we say that the problem is standing on my dinner table and on my breakfast table every day because I'm involved in that problem. It's not the industry, it's us, right?

Ben Davis 3:55Yes or no, I mean.We do have a role to play in terms of what food we consume. There are some food, there's a higher footprint. So livestock products, you know, animal derived products have a higher footprint because they need all of the feedstock, all of the food to keep the animals alive. The animals themselves need water. So, but it's not just livestock products and plant-based products.you know, even within plant products, like different vegetables, different fruits, they also have different water footprints. So yeah, as a consumer, we can have a conscious choice over, you know, making sure our diet is consuming less water intensive foods, or that we're sourcing our food and vegetables or our food in totalFrom areas that aren't experiencing water stress, so yeah, we have a role to play in terms of, you know, making better choices, making more informed choices, but...The thing is, it's so complex and we can't expect every consumer to understand every single problem connected to their food of every single item that they consume, right? It's just a much bigger problem than any single consumer. And really, at least the way I see it and the way AWS sees it,is we need to be expecting companies to manage water properly. Because, yeah, as consumers can't be expected to solve the world's problems, if the products that they're purchasing are being produced in a more sustainable way, then the consumers don't have to worry about it as much.If that makes sense.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 5:32How do you try to convince companies, food production companies, and of course, the supermarkets to take responsibility? How does that work?

Ben Davis 5:44Yeah, I mean, fundamentally, it's business continuity and resilience. So without water, you can't operate. You know, crops need water to grow, animals need water to survive. But also within the value chains of supermarkets, you've got food production in terms of, you know, transforming a raw material into something else that also involves water.Every step of the supply chain, water's being used in some way.If you run out of water anywhere on that chain, it's going to face business consequences, whether it's not being able to produce anything, so you have no products to sell, or you lose products, or, you know, staff can no longer go to work, or, you know, there's a whole myriad of challenges there, but it's really down to the fact thatif we run out of water or if they run out of water at some point in time, it's going to have real business consequences.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 6:38It's obvious that we cannot decide not to consume food, that we don't have that option for obvious reasons. And the production companies, the farming industry, the food industry, they do not have the option not to produce. So what are their options?

Ben Davis 6:55Yeah, I mean, there are a few, obviously, there's better management of the resources that they are using. So in terms of if they're irrigating, then they use more efficient irrigation technologies. If they are using fertilisers or pesticides, then they're doing them in a way where it's not going to lead to widespread pollution.But also, you know, lots of farms, they operate in isolation from the local environment. They, even though farming is, it's at the forefront of that human and nature relationship, you know, they rely on weather patterns and so they're very exposed to climate change and also the impacts ofother water users. You know, if you think one industry is polluting upstream of a farm, that farm takes in the water and is spreading polluted water on the crops. Like it's, you know, farmers also rely on their external system in order to operate. So farmers have a choice in order to kind of...make sure that what they're doing at their site level, at their farm level, is responding to what's needed in the overall landscape and talking to other water users, other industries about what they're doing and how it's impacting each other. Because water is a shared resource. So whilst farmers can do everything they can at their farm level,They also need to be engaging externally with stakeholders, local authorities, other water using industries and communities and making sure that it's all kind of feeding towards 1 common good.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 8:30Can you give us an example for successful water management, an example how a special fruit or a special fruit is produced in a different way and that helps to preserve that precious resource?

Ben Davis 8:42Yeah, absolutely. So there's a few examples globally. In Ica Valley, there's a number of large international agribusinesses, export businesses, who are operating in a way that's sustainably managing water. Obviously, they're operating in a desert. So for them, it's a very realissue. But if we can look in other locations, also in Latin America, in Ecuador, Colombia, and Dominican Republic, the supermarket chain Erica have been running what's called the Banana Project, where they're working with a number of their suppliers and farmers on the ground to implementbest practises on water management. And the great thing about that programme is it's not just one farm that's going through it. They have certified like 40 farms, give or take, and each one is implementing better practices, whether it's looking at biodiversity, looking at irrigation,or in like the wash houses of the bananas, how to reuse that water or minimise how much is wasted. So yeah, the banana project is a good one. One that I'm working very closely on myself is in the south of Spain with strawberry growers. And this is a collective action project that we've initiated withIt started off with Erika, Kalfland, Marks and Spencers from the UK, S Group from Finland and their trading partner, Co-op Trading, and Sam Luca, the large producer of fruits and vegetables. Now here we're working with on the ground strawberry producers to share with them the practises of water stewardship.So we've given them all the catchment data so they can understand the main challenge that's faced in the region, but also what some of the best practises are. And then we've, you know, implemented the programme of training and workshops and, you know, trying to establish a community of practise in the region.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 10:39You mentioned some companies, but as you know, many of us have the feeling I want to do something. I want to take a little bit of responsibility when I go shopping. Do you have a tip for us and our listeners? What can we do? What do we have to look at?What decisions can we make?

Ben Davis 11:02Yeah, I mean, it's tricky, isn't it? Because a lot of the impacts on water are stemming at the farm level. So having some awareness of who you're purchasing from or where the fruits and vegetables are coming from and the seasonality of it. So making sure, you know, if you're going to get strawberries or other kind of fruit,you're getting it within season and travelling the least amount of distance or coming from areas that aren't water stressed. It becomes challenging, though. Lots of the global supply chains source from water stressed areas. So, you know, unless you're willing toavoid certain products at certain times of year, you know, it's going to be difficult. So it's just around making better informed choices. And then when you purchase the food, you're not wasting it. You know, 50% of food worldwide goes to waste. 30% of that is wasted before it leaves the farm.So food waste is also a big challenge here. If we wasted less food, then we wouldn't need to produce as much food and then we wouldn't need to rely on as much water. So yeah.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 12:11I don't know whether you agree to that number, whether it's accurate, but my sources say around 70% of all freshwater consumption is done by the food production field. Is it naive to say if we change the way we produce food, we can solve our freshwater problem?

Ben Davis 12:31No.We can minute, we can definitely mitigate some of the challenges, but it's not just agriculture that is having the impact. Yes, agriculture is the largest withdrawal of water. So they take up water either from rivers, from local authorities or from underground.and then use that in the production of the food. Yes, they could manage that better, but equally, once they've used it, some of it is stored in the product, but a lot of it ends up back in the landscape, you know, either through runoff or soaking to the ground. It's not completely wasted.Whereas other industries, such as like in clothing manufacturing or pharmaceutical production, there the wastewater can have a much higher impact in terms of pollution. And so, you know, that pollution means that water is no longer the quality that we need it to be. Whereas with farming, we can manage that water use in a way that

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 13:31But.

Ben Davis 13:34Once the farmers used it, it's left the land in a way that can continue to be used.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 13:40Earlier you mentioned that water management is a very local business. It's not a global question because wood farmers in India do have probably not such an impact on the German groundwater level. So if it's a local thing, do you can spot out some areas where things

Ben Davis 13:53Yeah.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 14:00go pretty well and areas where it's very difficult and very problematic.

Ben Davis 14:06Yeah, I mean, so there's certain regions of the planet that have higher levels of scarcity, particular specific times of year, like the height of summer, so like the Middle East or North Africa, Southern Europe, Spain, Italy. But equally, if you look within countries,It's also a mixed picture of who's got more available water or, you know, whether the water is of the right quality, that kind of thing. And then you've got seasonal variation as well. So obviously in summer it rains less, so there's less water available. But then you also have the same challenge thatyou can lead to having too much water all at once. So you end up with flooding. So yeah, it's just a very complex web of different issues happening all at once. And it can be like, you know, you mentioned India, they have severe monsoon rains. So every season they havelots of rains all at once, but then the rest of the year, they have long periods of dry drought. And so there, it's about trying to make, when the water does come, managing it in a way that you're storing it in the landscape and holding on to it and not letting it just flow through. But you have to do that in a way that isn't going to lead to flooding or isn't going to damage businesses orYou know, yeah, there's a lot to manage.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 15:31People talk a lot about climate change, maybe even loss of biodiversity, but management of fresh water is not in the headlights. What do you think about that?

Ben Davis 15:42Yeah, it's a really good point. So there's a really nice saying that if climate change were a shark, water would be its teeth. So most of the impacts of climate change that we're experiencing, we're experiencing them through water. So the extreme weather patterns,more rainfall in a more unpredictable way, or it could be longer periods of drought. You know, it's climate change with the heating of the planet and through the emissions of greenhouse gases. It's leading to more intensive water cycles. And so it's, you know, we're feeling climate changethrough water. And if we ignore that part, then yeah, we can only address the small part of the challenge.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 16:28So it's not good enough just to tell our farmer next door, please change the way you grow your food. We have to see the entire picture, the whole picture.

Ben Davis 16:38Yes, yeah.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 16:40You sound, because you're an expert, you have a very scientific view, it sounds, it doesn't sound very optimistic if I listen to you. What do you think in 10 or 20 years, is it possible to save this pretty resource, thisvery, very life-spending resource water. Do we have a way or are we facing Armageddon?

Ben Davis 17:08And.Mm.I mean, so it's predicted that by 2030, there will be a 40% gap between how much water is needed versus how much is available. So that'll be, you know, we'll need 40% more water than is available. And that's by 2030. So that's just around the corner.And...But yeah, whilst things are moving relatively quickly, water is becoming more and more of an important topic for companies, for consumers to be aware of. For, you know, the EU has just launched their own water resilience strategy. And I know Germany's developed the national water strategy.There is a tension being put on the problem, but is it enough in the, you know, do we have enough time to really resolve it?Yeah, I don't know. I hope so, because once people do start operating in a way that, you know, is sustainably managing water, you know, not polluting, not using more than is available at that given time,then the changes happen very quickly and the successful implementation of it, it's very visible, if that makes sense. Like once we do start trying to resolve these challenges, things start to move fairly quickly. But yeah, we need the attention on it and we need the investment. Right now, lots of infrastructure globally,isn't receiving the investment it needs in order to cope with changes in rainfall patterns, in, you know, temperature, in all of these different things.Or if you think about like in terms of pollution and water contaminants.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 18:52Anna.

Ben Davis 18:59at least in the UK, the infrastructure that we're relying on was installed by the Victorians and we've just kind of piecemeal added bits to it to improve it over time. But the overall infrastructure hasn't really changed. So, I mean, I'm going into too much detail maybe, but it'skind of indicative across the planet how we've just been managing, we've been mismanaging water for generations. And now the efforts that have gone into solving those problems are very light touch. You know, it's a little bit here, a little bit there, but we're trying to resolve generations of mismanagement.And that just takes a lot of effort.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 19:43And you're working for an organisation that tries to change exactly that. Can you give us, just as a last question, in four or five sentences, what is, what is your ship doing? What are you trying to target for?

Ben Davis 19:56Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I work for the Alliance for Water Stewardship. We're 2 things. So we're a global membership alliance of companies, NGOs, civil society organisations, you know, ADCA being one of them, WWF, GIZ, DEG, Deutsche and Wiklund, Gesellschaft.They're all AWS members because they unite behind our definition of water stewardship. We also have a standard system with its own certificate, and that gives companies A framework for doing water stewardship. So with that being said, what is water stewardship? Well, we define it as thethe sustainable management of water in a way that means water is available for communities, environment and ecosystems to thrive and prosper now and into the future.So it sounds like good water management, and it does encompass that. But most importantly, we believe it can only be achieved for a stakeholder inclusive process. So what does that mean? Well, a stakeholder is anyone that has an interest in how you are using water. So it could be local communities, local environmental NGOs,the local authority, other companies, other industries. And we believe that the solutions for our shared water challenges will only be found when we're collaborating with these other stakeholders and taking into account their perspective. Because if we can, if we only do what we can control at the site level,You know, we can be, there's a saying, you know, we can be clean fish, but you can't be a clean fish in a dirty pond. So that's stewardship. It's about trying to be a clean fish, but then going out there and supporting others to also trying to become clean fish and clean up the pond.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 21:42Right.

Ben Davis 21:52as a whole. So good water management is like the engineering. Stewardship is about the relationships. It's about that social dynamics and collaboration and yeah, taking into account their perspective and not just trying to what you can control.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 22:09Wonderful, Ben. Thank you so much. That's more than enough for our 20 minutes podcast, because we do all that.

Ben Davis 22:14Yeah, I mean, water is such a complex subject, so yeah.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 22:17It is, it is, it is. Please don't forget to send the sound file. You have my e-mail address, mail at maildirksteffensde. Just send it or we transfer is the best way to do it. Wonderful. Thank you so much. And we'll let you know when it will be published probably in four weeks.

Ben Davis 22:22Yes, yep.Yeah, I'll do a wee transfer. It's probably easiest. Yeah, cool.Okay, perfect. And if you have any follow-up questions or if you want any kind of references, please feel free to get in touch.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 22:38And we will talk to you.I send an e-mail.Wonderful, Ben. Thank you so much.

Ben Davis 22:46Yeah, no worries. Thank you very much, Doug.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL 22:48Have a good day, bye.

Ben Davis 22:49Right.

Steffens, Dr. Sabine, UFA SHOW & FACTUAL Transkription beendet